NFL World Talks Ziegler, McDaniels, Davis, Raiders

In a several-month-long investigation, I spoke to multiple NFL executives, coaches and players to gain insight into the state of the Las Vegas Raiders.

HENDERSON, Nev.--The Las Vegas Raiders are a fascinating NFL franchise.

You can search the world over, across any type of professional sport, and struggle to find a handful of franchises in any league or sport with the name recognition, fan base and legacy of the Silver and Black.

This investigation started during the last third of the 2022 season.  It comes out of an exhaustive article that I did on Derek Carr and his Las Vegas Raiders' divorce.

While researching for that article, I got several nuggets given to me about the Raiders about owner Mark Davis, General Manager Dave Ziegler and Coach Josh McDaniels. None of them at the time were worthy of a story, but they were certainly noteworthy for me to remember for my coverage of the storied franchise.

After the season and my story on Carr, more came in, and the article started to take shape there. At the NFL Combine, I started receiving voluminous opinions, and since then, it has come to what you are about to read.

It is important to understand that these are the opinions of people in the NFL. While some certainly are mine, this article is void of simply being Hondo's opinion. This is what others think.

In fairness, I didn't ask Mark Davis, Dave Ziegler, or Josh McDaniels to comment because I didn't think it was necessary. This is what their colleagues and peers think, and it is fascinating.

• When Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler agreed to come to the Las Vegas Raiders, many believed they didn't realize what they were getting into.
• One NFL Executive said: "The Patriots had a lot of respect for Derek Carr, and I know that Josh did as well, and Dave for that matter. I just don't think they knew what things were like within the entire organization."
• He added: "The Raiders had been functionally dysfunctional for a long time. Carr had really been the only thing stable in the place. I had the impression after Rich (Bisaccia) was not retained that it was in Derek's best interest to move on."
• An NFL scout told me: "I was with a member of the Raiders after it was evident Rich wasn't getting the job in the building.  Mark hadn't fired him yet, but the person told me: 'I am concerned for Derek. It is almost like he has PTSD. He has made a lot of money from the franchise but has been the face of so much sh*t; that guy has had enough."
• One long-time NFL Scout told me: "You could see it last year (2022) especially, Derek looked worn down. The Saints game I think it was, he just went by himself to the end of the bench. I told our guys, that franchise has just worn their guy (Carr) out."
• According to former players like Tyler Polumbus, who played for him in Denver, McDaniels has been vocal about his skills with quarterbacks.
• Per Polumbus in a now protected Tweet, according to CBS Sports, McDaniels told his Bronco's team: "After trading away the young nucleus of our offense including Jay Cutler, Josh said to the entire team: 'Fellas don't worry about the QB situation, I can turn a high school quarterback into an All Pro,'"
• While that statement is hard for me to accept McDaniels saying, based on my relationship with him now and the man I know him to be, it does sound like what many have spoken of his time in Denver.
• I have already written about Derek Carr and Las Vegas Raiders' divorce. I won't get into it here, but Ziegler and McDaniels learned quickly how things were from the inside.
• One NFL GM told me: "You have to give Mark Davis a ton of credit. The guy moved the team to Vegas, no issues with the NFL, unlike his dad."

• They added: "Now the Raiders are rich in cash; he will spend anything. I genuinely believe he wants a title as much as his dad ever did; he wants to make his mark. He is also intelligent enough to know he doesn't know football like his dad. Mark loves his dad but wants to make a legacy more than just being Al Davis's kid."
• A family member of a current NFL owner told me: "Mark wants to win, and he craves a stable franchise. It is why he wanted Jon Gruden for 10 years and why Ziggy and McDaniels have long deals. Mark may not know football as well as his father, but unlike his dad, he is smart enough to know he doesn't know it all. He may get it wrong sometimes, but Mark Davis is a quality owner." 
• Another executive said: "Mark Davis wants that chip (Championship) so bad, and he went the safe route. His dad would have kept Rich Bisaccia. Mark listened to conventional wisdom and went and got the guy so many others wanted. Right or wrong will only be determined with time, but in year one, McDaniels didn't do as well as Rich in year one, and I think Mark underestimated the mood of his locker room."
• Still, another veteran executive said: "You can't blame Josh for the amount of resentment he walked into. I don't think the Las Vegas players dislike him, but they loved Rich Bisaccia. Mark hired a guy who has a system and a plan, and that system and plan aren't flexible."
• They added: "Time will tell if the marriage works in Vegas, I think Josh is a good coach, and Dave is one of the best young GMs, but I know this. Josh and Dave have their way of doing it, and they won't deviate."
• That is a fascinating dynamic. For all the criticism that Ziegler and McDaniels take for bringing in so many New England people, what did you expect? Those are the people that they are comfortable with, that they know.
• Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler are not doing it exactly like they did in New England, but they are very similar.
• One member of the Patriots organization told me when the Raiders hired Ziegler: "Dave is a super person and great at his job.  He didn't fit here because he isn't cutthroat. He is all business like Bill (Belichick), and that won't change, but he is also likable. He has found that mix."
• That same New England source said of McDaniels: "When Josh left here the first time, he was a mini-me of Bill. It was funny. He came back humbled. He wasn't the same man. He will run a system like Bill and his father, but his personable side will show more this time. He does really care about people; he also knows he has a job to do."
• When McDaniels and Ziegler took the team, they saw a team freshly coming from an improbable run to the NFL Playoffs.
• McDaniels loved Carr as a QB, and despite fans' thoughts, McDaniels was sold.
• When the new regime took over, they had no clue how bad the roster was from the standpoint of wasted draft picks and a roster void of home-grown talent.  
• The Raiders had made an improbable run based on a backbone of a special teams coach, who was a guru of men.  They had no way of knowing how depleted things really were.
• One NFL Assistant GM told me at the NFL Combine: "Fans only look at the first-round guys. But you need those lower round guys. You need them as backups, and specials, and two become a dude."
• He added" "The Raiders have had some hits like Maxx Crosby, but the misses are glaring, and guys you draft and develop either into starters or backups are cheap. When you have to keep paying free agents, that is unsustainable. Dave knows that."
• One executive said: "The Raiders' playoff run, was even more impressive when you looked at what they didn't have."
• In addition, they said: "You didn't have your standard guys that you had picked for depth and development, and the top picks were atrocious. The Raiders had been playing checkers in the first-rounds of the NFL Draft while the rest of the league was playing chess."
• They added, "The way things go in New England, they were so ingrained in the happenings of Foxborough, they had no real clue about Las Vegas."
• Another executive said: "People can hate the new guys (Ziegler, McDaniels), but the drafting before they arrived was so bad, and that isn't on them."
• They added: "Was it their fault Mark said the team wasn't rebuilding? Was it their fault they were sold a franchise in a better condition than it was? How many times was there zero depth last season or some guy that should have been sacking groceries starting? Should Mark Davis have been embarrassed about that? That wasn't on Josh and Dave; that was on the previous guys."

• As soon as Ziegler thought he had a chance to take over the franchise's helm with McDaniels, they started a deep dive.

• Unfortunately for them, the way the process went forward, they didn't get the entire peel of the onion back until they took the job.
• One executive said: "Dave spent 20 hours a day at the facility, got the Resort and still couldn't stop working. With each look there was more and more things they hadn't known about."
• A former Raider team official told me: "I think Dave saw much earlier than Josh that the team had concerns."
• One executive said: "I think a lot of conventional wisdom around the league was that you give Rich Bisaccia a two or three-year deal. He had the team, the momentum, and the fans. A two or three-year deal, you can fire him after one season, but if Mark (Davis) really knew how void of talent his roster was with bad drafting, let Rich pay for it, or prove the magic of that 2021 season, wasn't magic, but genuine ability."
• One NFL director of scouting said it best: "I think Mark Davis is a good guy, and when I saw his video with you (see below) saying the team wasn't rebuilding, I had to laugh.I don't think Mark is a liar; I don't think he knew how badly the roster had been injured with the poor drafts."

• They continued: "I don't blame Mark. I would have gone after Josh, also. Al didn't care what the NFL thought, owners, or the league office. I think it matters to Mark, and that isn't an insult. Al hurt his team by even on insignificant things going against the league. Mark is well respected among owners because he isn't afraid to buck Roger (Goodell), but he doesn't go out of his way. He isn't afraid to be reasonable. The NFL is better that he is there."
• They concluded with: "Al didn't care. Mark cares, and it was easy for him to get Gruden, it was his friend. When Jon was gone he knew the respect the league had for Josh (McDaniels) so he made it his mission to land him. He did, but I am not sure both parties knew what they were getting."
• Mark Davis had sold Ziegler and McDaniels on what he thought he had. They were excited to make it happen. Josh and Dave sold Mark that they could do it.
• It wasn't going to be that easy.
• A coach of another NFL team told me: "The Raiders had the right concepts, but they didn't have the players to do it.  It made what Rich did even more impressive. They had different schemes, but many of the same players."

• They added: "Josh runs his offense. I don't care who has the offensive coordinator title; it is all Josh. Derek was used to something that, until the season started, they couldn't have planned for or even discussed."
• He added, "Gru (Jon Gruden) would bring Derek in, and they would collaborate on the game plan. Jon loved everyone being involved. When game day hit, Derek knew precisely what Gru was thinking.  Under Josh, he doesn't need or want help. Here is the plan; do it precisely as I said."
• They added: "When Derek would see things that weren't going to work, he didn't have the flexibility to change things. Josh wants a robot for his system, Derek wasn't that."
• I asked this person on Thursday afternoon to clarify and explain what he meant by a "robot." 
• "Tom Brady was a robot for the McDaniels system. Tom would look at McDaniels and then do what he wanted. But, it was all things within the game plan or the McDaniels system. While Brady is fiercely independent, all he knew was the McDaniels way, so while he has different ideas, they are McDaniels'. Josh didn't teach the system to Derek like that. He couldn't have. They didn't have that much time, so the ideas Derek had weren't part of the McDaniels way, so Josh dismissed the arguments, and Derek took it to heart as McDaniels dismissed him."
• One Raider described the Josh McDaniels system this way: "Derek wanted to collaborate and be teammates; Josh wanted the player to do what the coach wanted. Both are good men, but they reminded me of the Venus and Mars book, two different football worlds."
• More than one Raider player has told me of Derek trying to discuss things with McDaniels, and he looked at the quarterback and said: "Just run the play."
• "Many people forget that the Patriots haven't been long-time successful drafters in the early rounds. That could be why McDaniels and Ziegler were perhaps not as concerned," according to one NFL coordinator.
• One NFL executive told me: "I am 100 percent convinced that Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler didn't know they were stepping into a rebuild. They could have went a lot of other places that weren't rebuilding. That said, I don't think anyone knew how bad it was until the season started."
• One NFL member of team management told me something about Ziegler: "The Patriots, if you look in the first-round, aren't great drafters. I was told by someone in New England that Ziegler would be frustrated at times by their picks, he thinks differently. Raider Nation needs to trust Ziegler. He gets it. He thinks like a young Ron Wolf."
• That is immense praise for Ziegler.
• One coach told me: "Rich masked many of the short-comings because of the system he ran. Changing to McDaniels system, different on every level, exposed the short-comings more quickly. I think Rich did a good job, but because he had the Gruden system, it helped him. I don't think Josh was as bad as it looked; it was more noticeable with a different system."
• He added: "I know some people well in that organization. Before Josh and Dave, the Raiders were a family. Nothing is wrong with that; it works a lot of places, like in Tampa Bay when Bruce Arians was there or even the Rams now. But Mark Davis either didn't really study the McDaniels (Patriots) way, or didn't care that there would be friction. Now Davis has to be all in."
• One thing that was consistently brought up to me by numerous people was the loss of Henry Ruggs.
• One GM said: "Ruggs was a true superstar in the making. Davante Adams is the best receiver in the NFL, but Ruggs was a rare talent. His speed and ability made him a game-changer.  That hurt the team and is a loss many overlooks because of the horrific accident."
• Yet another coach said: "I don't give a sh*t about how bad the drafting has been. If you had Ruggs last year, that team found a way to win. I know fans were pissed, and should have been, but last year, with all the issues, showed something. Those damn kinds (Raiders) never stopped working hard for Josh, that tells me they buy in."
• McDaniels and Ziegler aren't stupid. But once the season gained steam, it was clear that this team had issues.
• No one believes this, but while some players would bemoan the practices, or the constant grind, there wasn't complaining about McDaniels.
• So what did McDaniels and Ziegler inherit?
• Both men are personable. Despite people assuming McDaniels is a robot, that isn't true.
• I can tell you that in football and non-football interactions, he is a warm and good person. I have nothing to gain by saying this, but I like McDaniels and Ziegler. Both men can change this franchise. It will take time, and people must understand they were hired to change the culture. They were hired to change the way things are done.
• If fans don't like that, it is their choice; I respect that. But the vitriol toward them is unwarranted. Mark Davis hired them to do it, and like it or not, they are.
• I know it doesn't matter to fans if they lose, but I say that for a reason.
• One Raider told me: "It is really weird. I really like Josh, and I think he really likes me. He talks with the guys as people. But, when it is football, it is his way. Gruden wasn't as warm as Josh, but when it came to football, he would listen. Josh is warm when it isn't about football, and cold when it is about it. It took some getting used to."
• Conversely, there isn't one player who doesn't care deeply about Dave Ziegler.
• "Z is my guy," one Raider said.
• "He cares about you as a man, and he cares about you as a player. He'll go up to guys after a practice and tell you what was good, and he will tell you how to fix things. We know he deals with our money. I get that, but he is chill," another Raider said.  
• The state of the Raiders is, at worst, a rebuild. At best, it is retooling.
• One executive said: "No way the Raiders sign Davante if they really felt it was a rebuild. From what I heard, they didn't realize how bad it really was until they played the Saints in New Orleans. After that debacle, they knew.  But they don't think it's a rebuild."
• I asked one executive how he would classify the team today. "With giving Jimmy Garoppolo the deal they did and bringing in Hoyer, they don't think it is a rebuild. If you are rebuilding, you pick a QB that high, and it buys you time with fans, ownership, and around the league. But bringing in (Brian) Hoyer shows they have real injury concerns. If they were rebuilding, they would have kept (Jarrett) Stidham and brought in a top rookie. They didn't. They see it as a retool, which is how they sold Davante."
• But one thing happened at the NFL Owner's meeting that stunned me.
• Mark Davis told my colleague and friend Vic Tafur from The Athletic: "Dave is young & never been in this position before. It takes time to learn all the tricks of the trade. I think the people he confides in might not be giving him the full picture because it's so damn competitive."

Davis on #Raiders GM Ziegler: "Dave is young & never been in this position before. It takes time to learn all the tricks of the trade. I think the people he confides in might not be giving him the full picture because it's so damn competitive.
"But he's going to be doing great."

— Vic Tafur (@VicTafur) March 28, 2023

• When a close friend of mine told me about it, I was stunned. I immediately sent that quote out to people from four different teams, and this is what I got.
• Team No. 1: I showed that to our owner. That was a low blow. Way to throw your new GM under the bus.  I don't think he meant it that way, but with an angry fan base, you just can't say that."
• Teams No. 2: Dave will never admit this, but that had to hurt.  No way Mark meant it that way, but it sure came off as bad."

• Team No. 3: "Clueless."
• Team No. 4: "Ouch.  What owner would do that to his guy when he still works for him? That's bullsh*t."
• Another team official, when speaking of Mark Davis and the Raiders, said; "This team got stunned when Tom Brady retired. Now I think the Raiders will have an excellent draft with Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels, but don't pretend Mark Davis's fingerprints weren't all over the Derek Carr mess and the hunt for Brady."
• One agent told me: "I heard that in the Derek Carr negotiations, on his way out, Ziegler repeatedly had to say he had to talk to Mark Davis more than once. Now I wasn't a part of it, and perhaps it was Dave negotiating, but I was told Mark was all over it."
• So what is the current state of the Raiders?  
• The fans are angry. One former Raider told me for this article: "It is like they have PTSD. This team tells their fans it is about winning, and they don't. Yes, we hate the Patriots, so Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler know people are mad at the team, and they hate the Patriots. They take the brunt, but winning fixes all. If I were advising them, I would say don't lose your locker room, but do it your way."
• The team likes and supports Josh McDaniels. There is a lot of anger over the release of Trent Sieg, but it isn't so much about a long-snapper; it was about a glue guy in the locker room that appeared to be doing everything they wanted.
• McDaniels and Ziegler ultimately have to do it their way. The release of Sieg was tone-deaf, in my opinion. These players know they are the bosses, but those bosses will get fired if they lose their team.

• McDaniels will benefit from hiring Jimmy Garoppolo and Brian Hoyer because they are two guys operating in his system. It was clear that even though Stidham was not the answer in 2022, the offense at least felt different between Stidham and Carr.
• McDaniels has his guys with Garoppolo and Hoyer; that stability will help the team.
• The players like McDaniels, but he can stick to his rigid system now that he has his QBs, but winning and winning fast will significantly help him go from being liked to be trusted.
• The players love Dave Ziegler. That is understandable because he isn't their coach. His job as a GM demands it is different.
• A current Raider told me: "I don't think the term good-cop bad-cop is fair because no one looks at Josh as a bad guy. But there is a difference. I like them both, do what you need to do, but f*** it, just win baby."
• The Raiders are not a team in 2023 that will contend for an NFL title. Could they compete for an NFL Wild Card? If they are retooling, then yes. If they are rebuilding, then no.
• I believe the Raiders will compete for an NFL Wild Card in 2023. I expect them in 2024 to compete for the AFC West.
• But I will be accountable. I predicted the Raiders would win the AFC West in 2022. WOW, was I wrong? I came to that assumption because everything I heard from everywhere, off and on the record, was positive. I don't believe people were lying.  
• I don't believe anyone who said the team knew they were in trouble before the season. I know that wasn't the case.
• Still, I own my horrible prediction.
• What is the state of the Raiders? Mark Davis has to get some stability, and they will be retooling two years later with this franchise in Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels' hands.
• I am told by people inside the Raiders that "Davis gets it now. He sees how bad things were and where they are now."
• One of the things I admire about Davis is that others don't move him.  Media criticism or praise doesn't change what he wants. He wanted a different culture and the Raiders to resemble a Patriots-run franchise. He wants the winning that comes with that.  He couldn't have expected it all in year one, but I believe he is getting what he wants.
• The thought process is that if the team doesn't digress in 2023, Ziegler and McDaniels will get time to continue the process. I do not expect digression.
• I know that some Raiders fans find that terrible news. You are certainly welcome to feel that way.
• But the motto of the Raiders is: "Just win baby," it never came with a blueprint of how. There are many ways to win; Raider Nation wants them to find one.
• For the sake of your franchise, it's time to be all in with what you have. If the new Raider Way doesn't work, your timeline for contention goes from two years to multi-years. For the sake of speed, the Raider Way, now under Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziegler, is the way. 

Revisit our 2023 NFL MOCK Draft 1.0 when you click right here.

Revisit our 2023 NFL MOCK Draft 2.0 when you click right here.

Revisit our 2023 NFL MOCK Draft 3.0 when you click right here.

Revisit our 2023 NFL MOCK Draft 4.0 when you click right here.

Revisit our 2023 NFL MOCK Draft 5.0 when you click right here.

The 2023 NFL Draft will go from April 27-29 and be held at Union Station in Kansas City, Mo. The 2023 NFL Year and Free Agency period began at 4 p.m. EDT on March 15.

The Raiders are expected to be significant players in the free-agent market this offseason.

Please tell us your thoughts when you like our Facebook Page WHEN YOU CLICK RIGHT HERE.