Sherrone Moore FIRED, Ivan Maisel Talks Notre Dame | Others Receiving Votes

All right. Welcome to the show. Others receiving votes. The December 11th edition. I'm Pat 40 joined as always by Gene Wojakowski and Brian Fisher. Fellows, I kind of thought we had hit a light week. I thought we might actually, you know, we Looking around for a topic or two, kind of needing to invent something. No, no, this is college football, the news never stops. And so we ended up with a loaded show. We will have our first ever guest on this show, a momentous historic occasion. Uh, and we will certainly go quite deep on the Sharon Moore situation at Michigan. Uh, there's a lot to unpack there, and it is increasingly ugly, frankly, this is no longer just a coach who was fired. This has gone from a personnel action to a potential criminal case, um, to the last of my knowledge, uh, Thursday morning, looking, I have, he was in, booked into custody in Washington County Jail. Um, Wednesday night, that doesn't still appears, still appears to be the case as of 8:30 this morning. Uh, so we'll certainly get into that. And later on, we will discuss the Heisman Trophy, which will be awarded on Saturday, and we will do commenters commenting on comments, and we will pick the Army-Navy game. But before we do all that, uh, we're gonna talk about the Notre Dame situation, which really kind of overtook the beginning of the week. Uh, the Notre Dame snub , the Notre Dame reaction to the snub. And that's where our guest comes in. We're gonna have Ivan Maisel, College Football playoff selection Committee member. And the author of a book about Frank Leahy, the Notre Dame legend, former colleague of Gene and Is at ESPN, full disclosure, longtime friend. But he's gonna tell us what he can about the playoff selection committee process. And how we got to the point of a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of outrage and mayhem. And a pre a temporarily canceled book signing at the University of Notre Dame. Uh, quite a chain of events, yeah. So, uh, we're gonna get to Ivan here in just a few minutes. But guys, uh, I, I'm just interested, Gene, let's start with you, your thoughts on how the, the Notre Dame situation has, has boiled down. You said on our show on Sunday that you were shocked they weren't in the bracket. What have you felt watching the aftermath of that? Uh, I just wanna preface this by saying once again, that, uh, I think Notre Dame was entirely a worthy, uh, a playoff team. Certainly a team that could have made a real run at a national championship, but the committee thought otherwise. And I understood why athletic director Pete Babaqua went on the Dan Patrick show in the immediate aftermath of that on Monday. And expressed his, his anger, his outrage, his exasperation, how flummoxed he was, fine. But then it just went on and on and on, and there came a point where you thought he, he was gonna appear on Good Morning Mishawaka, or, or, or Drive Time in Fort Wayne . At some point, you made your point, we understand. We understand the frustration, but now it's time to move on. And then it got to, uh, we got a, a food fight with Brett Yourmark , the uh uh Big 12 commissioner, and that's egregious behavior because of, of what uh Babala said about uh Jim Phillips of the ACC. Anyway, they sort of lost the moral high ground to me at some point. And then, uh, in one press conference, we heard that Uh, there's a memorandum of understanding that moving forward, Notre Dame, if it's in the top 12 of the, of the playoff standings, if it stays at 12, would automatically be guaranteed a spot, uh, in, in the playoffs, which I thought was a little hypocritical given that if we use that same formula this year, Miami would have gotten knocked off, but Notre Dame would have been perfectly fine with that. No outrage there. And finally, fellas, I did not hear any of this. Outrage about process, uh, or the CFP selection shows on Tuesdays last year, when Notre Dame, uh, was selected to the CFP playoffs. So, uh, you know, at, at some point, it just became a little silly to me. Yeah, there, it's always there's situational outrage, uh, involved in whoever is outside of the bracket, you know, that's when the, that's when the system becomes a problem, when the, when the system doesn't help your team, right? Um, so yeah, there was a lot going into this, uh, a whole bunch, and we're gonna get Brian's feelings on it, and we'll all add some more here, but we've got our first ever guest and others receiving votes history, and there he is. We've got a quad box here, Ivan Mazel. As I mentioned in the introduction, uh, longtime friend and former colleague of, of Gene and mine at ESPN, uh, has covered the sport meritoriously for decades. And as a coming off his first year on the college football playoff selection committee, and I have to say, I mean, you look relatively sane and together here, Ivan coming off of that year, what it was like. Oh, gee, it, it went great, uh, as you can tell from the last week. No, it , it actually, you know, it's an impossible job. Uh, you're certainly not gonna make everybody happy. Uh, people kept asking me, was it fun? And I go, no. Uh, you know, it wasn't fun. It was, it was intellectually challenging. It was great people. Uh, but at the end of the day, you know, as it often does with these things, essentially, we were trying to fit 3 ft into two shoes, and that's never gonna go well, uh, to where everybody's happy, and it certainly didn't this week. Yeah, I, I wanna, I'll ask something else real quick and then I'll let, uh, Brian and Gene weigh in here as well. Uh, you, let's just, uh, just to clarify, you had a partial recusal for Notre Dame and for Stanford, right? You're a Stanford alum. You've just written an excellent book on former Notre Dame coach Frank Leahy. What does a partial recusal mean in terms of your role with the committee? A full recusal means you have to leave the room. A partial recusal, which was instituted this year, uh, means you can stay in the room. And you can talk about the other teams. Surrounding the team you're recused from, but you cannot talk about or vote concerning the team that you're partially recused from. So, you know, my computer would, uh, when it would present everybody else with Notre Dame, Team B, Team C, Team D, mine would just, all I could do is press something that said, OK, you know, like present. Like, you know, just, and, uh, So, you know, as you can imagine, for much of the week , Saturday night, the wee hours of Sunday, and then again, after we woke up Sunday, I could have just been sitting there eating a bag of popcorn and watching. You know, I mean, it was , it was, it was fascinating, and, and I was glad I was there. And, and it was, what was frustrating to me was I would start to make a point and I would get to, and I would forget, you know, because I'm so focused on, These teams and, and I'd start to talk and then I would just, you know, if I got anywhere near Notre Dame, there would be like a, you know, a red light would come up. They go, OK, all right, stop, you know, I, you know, damn it. So, uh, but, uh, you know, that was, uh, that was the deal. Ivan, we've, uh, a couple of us that have obviously gone through the, uh, mock selection committee exercise, which is, you know, it's interesting and, and, and a good insight into the process, but that's always looking back at the past year. I, I'm kind of curious, what was it just like from, from just your standpoint going in week in, week out, doing this process and, and what you kind of learn about things that, uh, you maybe didn't expect. Well, I, I went through the mock selection too, Brian, and, and I was, I was kind of bored by it. I mean, because you know how it comes out, you know, and I, and I just sort of, you know, it was, it was mildly interesting, but I, I kind of went in one ear and out the other. Uh, obviously, this was a lot different. Uh, and it, it was, uh, Uh It was just a, a lot of discussion over the, the amount of data is mind-boggling that, you know, it's, uh, the CFP has a deal with sports Source analytics. And, uh, there are stats there that I didn't even know existed. There are stats there that I should have come up with myself that are painfully obvious. Uh, and, And everybody, and, and I think the beauty of the system to me is that there is no, you know, people say, well, you know, what, what's the primary? Is it head to head? Is it common opponents? There's not one that, You know, is the crown achieving stat. Everybody can pick their own deal, uh, you know, One coach like this, one coach like that, you know, I, I was, uh, really interested in relative scoring and relative offense and relative defense. And that's the one I was pissed I didn't think of myself. You know, if, and it's simply, if you average, if you give up 20 points a game and I score 30 on you, then my relative, uh, scoring against you is 150%. You know, uh, and what fascinated me about those numbers is they are a great predictor of, of success, uh, relative offense, relative defense, relative scoring. And, and so I, I kind of glommed on to those and, and then there's schedule strength and, and record strength and on and on and on, and I, I'll stop. But, uh, it, it, there was just so much data that we were awash in. I, I just felt like I was in a stats class back at in, in college and I almost dozed off and me both, I'm sure did really well on stats. I, I, I think I lasted a week in my stats class. Ivan, you, you wrote Delta to me as an airline. You wrote this tremendous book called American Coach The Triumph and Tragedy of Notre Dame Legend Frank Leahy. I have it here. I'll show it to our audience. There you go. Good visual, good prop, Gina. You're, you're going to make an appearance. You're gonna make an appearance which we will discuss the, the drama involved in that. But, um, uh, athletic director Pete Avaqua, uh, in his criticism of the committee, said he simply didn't understand the process. And when you make this appearance, there are going to be Notre Dame fans there. They are going to ask you the same sort of question. That their, their confusion about the process in, in the final week or two of, of the uh choices. What can you tell them about that process and how it turned out that Notre Dame was left out? Well, I spoke to a Notre Dame alumni club last night in Sarasota, and, uh, and they were, uh, you know, and I, ostensibly it was going to be about the book and I just stood up and said, all right, we'll get to the book. What do you want to know? And , and, and I, uh, and they said, no, we're good with the playoffs. Let's talk about the book. No, they didn't actually say that. Uh, uh, uh, And I tried to, I explained how we do it. And then, and when it got to the final weeks, I said, look, you know, from there was a couple of things. And one is the thing that Hunter Uyk said. Uh, a, a couple of times coming down the stretch, which was You know, it was, we never got to Miami and Notre Dame. Alone. And there was always a team, other one or more teams in the discussion with them. And I think he said Sunday, you know, BYU was there and we had You know, we never got to Notre Dame, Miami because we had Notre Dame ahead of BYU. And so it was never, It was never just a a head to head, um. And the other thing I tried to point out, and this really didn't occur to me till the end, you know, now it all looks crystal clear. Uh, but when you're in the middle of it, and you don't know, you know, we didn't know Miami was going, when we, our first poll, Miami, and again, Hunter said this the other day, Miami had lost 2 of 3 and didn't look very good. And Notre Dame already had its momentum going. And so that's why they were 8 spaces apart, and that fully formed picture of Miami or anybody else was not complete. Until the end of the season. And that's, you know, no, nobody at Notre Dame wants to hear that. And, and it's not a satisfying answer. But, you know, to me, that, that explains it. You know, now you can see it completely, but, you know, and it looks obvious in retrospect, but it, it certainly didn't in the moment. Uh, point's been made by several people, myself included, that I, I, I, I'm not sure the TV show on Tuesday night serves the committee well or even the weekly rankings. I, I, I'm curious, yeah, what do you think of as a committee member? A, do you watch the show, B, what's your reaction watching the show, and C, would you rather just do this one time at the end? Um, Hm. Well, uh, with the caveat way above my pay grade, but, uh, I, I watched the show when I wasn't traveling home. And, you know, and, and I think, uh, or a couple of times I had book events Tuesday night, you know, so I didn't get to see it. Uh, but I saw probably 4 of them, um. Uh, my memory when the show began, what Bill Hancock said was, it allows us. Us being the committee to set the agenda. I mean, think about what would happen if AP and the coaches poll had, you know, Their poll all the way and we got to the end of the season and we had a completely different poll, you know, and, and, oh my God, you know, what were, you know, what is this committee doing? You know, you know, how could we have been 3 all year long and we're 7 now or, you know, whatever. So, uh, that part of it, uh, I, I appreciate and I think that, that part is smart. Um, again, explanations week to week. Uh, are not going to look very smart at the end. And they may not be consistent. Football is not consistent. You know, uh, things change. And, uh, that's not a satisfying at all answer. Uh, you know, to your question of whether we should have it. Uh, I, you know, does it have to be every week? I, I don't know, you know, but it, it's clearly, it's a ratings getter for the worldwide leader . Uh, so, uh, you know, us that, you know, Uh, what we think is, is completely moot. You know, ESPN paid for it. It's a good show for them, and that's pretty much the end of the discussion. Ivan, I'm, I'm curious too, we, you know, we, we hear a lot about the personalities, you know, in, in the room and, and certainly going back a couple of years, you know, you always heard that, Barry Alvarez, you know, he spoke up a lot, and I'm kind of curious what the, what the tenor of, of the room is from, from your perspective, and especially this year, given that there was a committee chair change right in the right smack dab in the, in, in the middle of things. Yeah, Hunter was really put in a, in a, uh, tough spot, uh, within the room, he was terrific. And, uh, I actually said this at the end of the meeting Sunday. I really appreciated, uh, I told everybody, I really appreciated the level of respect and civility that, That was prevalent throughout. You know, throughout the, the whole season. It, it, it's a good group. There was nobody like, uh, Barry and, and, you know, we, we all know, you know, Barry is, is, is, is out there, and we all love him to death. Uh, but this was a, uh, very respectful, uh, if you think about the head coaches, because those are the personalities that, That our listeners and , and we know best, you know, Mark D'Antonio, not a, not a loud, flashy guy. Mike Riley, world's nicest guy. You know, Chris Ault, just a good old football coach, you know, and, and a, and a charming, he's a charming guy. You know, I, I didn't know Chris really at all before this, but really liked him. Uh, and, and, Everybody, nobody wants to hear this. I know, but the only agenda everybody had was to try to get it right. And that's, uh, and, and there was a, uh, it never got, but it never got testy. You know, because there's a lot of guys that were already friends who are in the room, you know, ADs come up kind of the way coaches do. They work together somewhere, they're in the same conference somewhere. You know, I think when Mark Harlin was at South Florida, uh, Troy Dannon was at Tulane. They were both in the American together. You know, now they're on the committee together at, at Utah and Nebraska, uh, respectively. So there were a lot of relationships I wasn't aware of. Uh, I really, the only people I knew in there were, were the coaches and Jeff Long, uh, that I had any kind of relationship with. So I, I, uh, I really enjoyed that part of it. Uh, Ivan got that was a long answer. No, it was a good answer. It was good, yeah, with without compromising any of the, uh, protocol relative to being a committee member. As Saturday and then Saturday night unfolded, and you guys kept meeting and talking. Can you describe, at least in general terms, how close that final decision really was? Well, I will tell you, Gino, that we don't. They don't tell us what the, the vote tally is. You know, everybody, uh, loads their, we all have laptops in front of us and they say, OK, it's time to vote. And, and, and a countdown clock, 10-second countdown clock appears on your screen, and then the ballot pops up. It's very dramatic. Uh, and, uh, and you vote and you sit there. And then, uh, they say, you know, Whatever whatever it would have been. Alabama is 9, or was it Alabama is 9, Miami is 10, Notre Dame is 11. And, uh, sometimes they'll say it was close or it wasn't close, or, but, you know, we don't know how each other voted. We know who, you know, I mean, obviously, we've all been, Uh, debating back and forth, so you know who thinks what in rough terms, but not everybody speaks every time. So, uh, You know, it was, I, I, obviously, the greatest issue was those three teams. And we didn't begin meeting until after. Uh, after the Virginia Duke game, in terms of, uh, you know, we, we met a cup, we met early in the day just to kind of go over the 120 game for about 20 minutes. And then the 4 o'clock game started. And uh um. Uh, but we didn't actually have a meeting. Until after Virginia Duke, which was about midnight, and we went from midnight to about 2 And then we went to, you know, we broke up and then we got back together at 7:30 and went till 9:30 or 10, something like that. At some point we had to break because the show was coming up. It may have been after 10 even. Uh, last thing for me here, Ivan, I, so, yes, you guys go until 10 and you've, you've put together the bracket. Um, everybody say, hey, this is a pretty good bracket, or what, how did people feel? And then secondly, I'm sure you knew this was going to be a very, uh, You know, much discussed result, did, did the, the amount of backlash and hue and cry take you at all by surprise? Uh, A little bit, uh, a little bit, um, By surprise, only I Intellectually, it didn't take me by surprise, but, you know, but then when you're faced with it and you really feel the emotion of people that, you know, that's, that was, uh, yeah, you know, that I hadn't, I haven't. Been the subject of the brunt of something like that, uh, before. Uh, obviously, I've had stories, you know, that people didn't like and, and, and told me they didn't like. Uh, we all have gone through that. And this is similar to that. Um, Uh, when we finished, how did we feel? I mean, there's always this sort of self-congratulatory moment, you know, hey, hey, this is a really good, you know, we, we really nailed this one, you know. You know, uh, but that's, I think, part and parcel of any, any process. You wanna feel, you, you know, you like to feel good when you finished it. And, and it was, uh, It is as it is pretty intellectually. Uh, it's thorough. You know, I don't know if rigorous is the right word, but, you know, it's thorough, and people may not like the way we decided, but, you know, I'll still take a, a human committee over, you know, what the BCS nightmare we all live through, uh, 10 times out of 9. Yeah, amen. Uh, one other thing, I lied, sorry, Ivan, uh, we do have to discuss your, your bookstore appearance. At the, the Hams bookstore at Notre Dame, very nice bookstore, uh, do a book signing, Frank Leahy book, as, as Gino noted, and, uh, that's gonna be Friday at what time? 4:30, 4:30. OK, so or others want to come by and get a, get a book and get it signed. There you go. But this looked like it wasn't going to happen for a minute, uh, directly related to your membership on the committee. Can you kind of just walk us through what happened and then ultimately didn't happen there? Yeah, uh, Wednesday was quite the day, uh, you know, they called and said we're really concerned, and they're very nice people, and I've appeared at, at the bookstore. I think it's pronounced Hammis, uh, uh, but yeah. Uh, and I've been there twice already, and, and they were, they were delightful and everybody couldn't have been more welcoming and the book was well received. But they called me and said, we just don't feel good about this and we're really concerned. And I've said, you know, hey, I've been yelled at before. It'll be fine. And, you know, we had that sort of tennis ball back and forth ping pong conversation and I finally realized they really wanted me to say it was OK if we didn't do it. And, uh, and I said, fine. And then I, the minute I hung up, I went, no, that's not really good, cause if, if, if that happens, uh, you know, then you're letting all that noise out there and, and anger and, and Twitter rage, you know, have its way. And so, uh, once it became public, Uh, You know, nobody at the athletic department and nobody in the university administration had any knowledge that, that the bookstore felt this way and, and the bookstore was, made this decision. And, and once, you know, once it blew up, they couldn't move quickly enough to, uh, reverse the decision. And, and everybody meant well, you know, uh, uh, but, You know, the, the, the decision got reversed. You know, Pete Bavaqua called me to apologize and I said, you know, I said, Pete, how's your day going? Uh, uh, and, and, Uh, and I said, there's no need to apologize. Everybody was acting in good faith. But, uh, yeah, so, uh, I will be at, at the bookstore, uh, Friday at 4:30. I'll be at Joseph Beth in Cincinnati Saturday, and then I'm speaking at the South Bend, back in South Bend Sunday at the museum. So everybody that wants to take a shot will certainly have their chance. And I will listen. There you go. It's a terrific book, man. Yes, it's a great book. Take a shot. Take a shot, but also buy the book. Uh, it's worth it, worth the read. Thank you. All right, I, we'll let you get back on I-75. Thank you for pulling over to talk to us. Uh, great insight on how the committee works, and, uh, we'll be back right after this. All right. Our thanks to Ivan, uh, Mazel for coming on and telling us a little bit how that sausage is made. Let's put a bow on it real quickly here, guys, and then we'll move on to Michigan. Uh, you know, my, the one thought here. I'm glad the bookstore thing worked out, but it is symptomatic of the over the top outrage, I thought from Notre Dame. And Pete, you're, I'm sorry, uh, uh, Gene, you touched on this uh at the beginning of the show, that They ginned up an outrage that I thought was somewhat disproportionate to the situation. I, I agree that I feel badly for them, but we're gonna feel badly for somebody, and that's the bottom line, as Ivan said, 3 ft for 2 shoes. Yeah. And, you know, I, I, I just, I, I would like to, like us to get past a little bit of the You know, whoever isn't in the committee has the right to go absolute scorched earth ballistic uh for days afterwards. I get being disappointed, but I thought it was too much. Well, it was too much and it was directed and in particular from Notre Dame's standpoint at the ACC which might have larger implications to the broader college football universe, which we can always always get into in in future shows, but that, that to me was the thing that's right. I understood the anger. I understood, you know, the AD coming out and, and, and, uh, you know, trying to rally the fan base a little bit, and, and even to a certain extent. Bypassing the bowl game. I, I kind of understood all of that, but just for it to keep going, like you mentioned earlier, Gino, and to have it directed at the league that essentially you are a partial member of, that was, that was the more eye-opening thing that we might have some, uh, additional fallout, if you will, uh, over the coming weeks and months from. I, I would remind everyone that the ACC while it was totally, uh, mutually beneficial, uh, during the COVID years, the ACC reached out a, a hand to Notre Dame and, and, uh, provided Notre Dame a place to, to play games and to be basically a, a, a member of sorts that year. And, um, it just, it, this thing went sideways fast . And as uh Pete Babakqua said, Um, you know, things can be, uh, fixed and, and things heal over time. But to Brian's point, this one didn't sound like, um, there weren't gonna be bruise marks for a while, so we'll see how that shakes out. Yeah, that, the, the language involved, irreparable damage, that's legal type of language. And there, you know, I know that the, the school and the conference have sparred a little bit on Like the number of conference games that are, the number of ACC games they play, they're supposed to play 5 every year, uh, like they're adding this regular series with Clemson. Notre Dame wants that to be part of that 5. the ACC says, no, that's in addition to the 5. So these kind of things, there, there is some, uh, Some skirmishing, I think, going on or maneuvering at least here and we're gonna see what the overall impact is on the relationship there between uh the school and the league that they're in in 24 other sports. So wild times there, but, uh, no less wild, maybe even more wild in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Unbelievable situation that blew up on Wednesday afternoon with the firing of Sharon Moore, the football coach, after two seasons. Uh, but it didn't end there. Uh, the, the statement from Michigan was, was surprisingly specific for why it was firing him. An improper relationship with a staffer, uh, they kind of aired a little bit of the laundry there. And then things got worse. This became more than just a firing of a coach for an off the field issue, as Sharon Moore was investigated for an assault, alleged assault, and taken into custody. And, you know, again, as of like 9 this morning, believed to still be in the Washino County Jail. I don't know whether he's been charged yet, but this whole thing has been Fairly shocking, but also, there were, I will say, there were rumblings, there were some rumors, some discussions like A Sharell Moore's, he's in trouble there, and it wasn't just wins and losses. So we don't really know fully the timing of what went down other than the University of Michigan says it got credible information very recently about this situation. But uh I'm asking you guys here, uh , you know, this, this blew up in such a, a dramatic way, uh, Gene O'Brien, uh, what is your reaction to when this thing all blew up? I, I thought my jaw had dropped about as far as it could on Selection Sunday when Notre Dame was left out, but then this happened. And it, it, as you said at the very top of the show, every time you think college football is gonna exhale, and, and maybe just relax for a moment, something crazy happens. So, it, it is a humiliating um uh fall of grace uh for Sharon Moore. And, um, and of course, obviously, we have to let the legal process play out and we'll, we'll eventually find out what actually Uh, is going on. But it's clear that, that Michigan is, is moving forward, uh, without him, and, and said so in, in pretty stark terms, terms that you normally don't see in that sort of kind of , in that kind of statement, uh, to be that specific. So, um, uh, Michigan once again faces a scandal. And, um, and that is becoming sort of the, uh, the way of the world in Ann Arbor, in that football program, which is just, uh, there's an ideal and a philosophy that Michigan likes to say it adheres to, but in this case, there's no, no denying that, um, this, this Michigan man idea is is really vaporized at the moment. Yeah, and I, I mean, Pat, to your point, I mean, there were certain rumors, if you will, that something was going on in the Michigan program that there was some sort of investigation, but, you know, the, the fact that, you know, show Moore was doing his signing day press conference, you know, just a couple of days ago. I mean, I, I saw, uh, the AD ward. on, on Tuesday morning, you know, getting coffee and, you know, it didn't seem like anything was amiss. So this, this definitely came, came fast and hard, uh, there in Ann Arbor in terms of the speed that this happened in, in transition from, all right, we're, we're doing something to, all right, he's fired. You know, this, this, this happened extremely quickly. And, uh, I think just the surprise that everybody has, you know, it's, um, you, you, you think the program is going one direction, you know, they, they finished 9 and 3 this year, and then boom, they're now in the middle of a coaching search. And I think there's also some additional questions over Ward Manuel. There's no school president right now, like that, that clouds the coaching search. Um, you know, we, we've seen the Michigan regents, uh, be pretty hands-on. In terms of, uh, everything that's been going on with the whole Big 10 deal and, and what's going on with, uh, the private equity piece and everything that, so they, they've been pretty hands-on with athletics as is. And, uh, now you, you dropped this in there. So I think there's a lot of things going on there at Michigan in general, beyond just the fact that, hey, they don't have a football coach right now, which is, is crazy to think about, uh, given the way, uh , we, we, we kind of expected this week to go. We did not have this on, on our plate. And, uh , I, I think it makes for a fascinating search because you kind of wonder, All right. Is, is that ink dry for Matt Campbell, you know, in, in Penn State, you know, he would have been one of the top candidates. This probably would have been his top job if he, if he had, had, uh, his, his druthers would be good to go to Michigan, you know, instead of Penn State. But obviously, he, he's in State College right now. He's been in that, uh, that, that cap and he's , he's moving forward there. It, it's it's just a fascinating time on the coaching carousel, you know, in terms of You've got a lot of candidates out there that have either changed jobs recently, um, you know, it, it's kind of after the cycle, if you will, um, you know, a lot of, a lot of kids have even signed. So it, it just, it, it, it was a lot. It was a lot this week and I, I imagine it's still going to be a lot there in Ann Arbor, given the, the fallout that we're gonna have not only locally, but, but nationally, given the impact of this job. Now, the problem, as Gene alluded to, is that, it's been a lot for a while in Ann Arbor . It has been a succession of issues, some more serious than others. I mean, and I, I don't want to compare Connor Stallions with a potential assault, uh, And other situations, potential criminal situation with, with Sharon Moore here. But just the pile-up of stuff has been incredible. At a time when they were also, they, they had as much success as Michigan has had in a long time for a three-year period, where they went to the playoffs 3 straight times and then they won the playoffs and went 15-0, um, the one year in 2023. So, But while that was going on, there were two major NCAA investigations. There was the not a cheeseburger investigation of impermissible recruiting and impermissible use of off-field coaches that led to sanctions. And then there was the Stallions piece, which went on and on and on and resulted in a massive fine of the program, like $30 million multiple suspensions. Jim Harbaugh was suspended. Sharon Moore was suspended. And then again, the more serious the criminal stuff, these really disturbing allegations against former offensive coordinator Matt Weiss, uh, that he had unauthorized access to computers and aggravated identity theft with the allegation that he was taking pictures, private pictures of college students, athletes from around the country. And Uh, depositing them basically in his own hard drives and, and, and for whatever purpose, I don't really wanna know. But, and then you have this Sharon Moore situation there. And, yeah, I'm sorry, I don't wanna hear the Michigan man thing, right? I do not wanna hear that we are the leaders and the best. They are, right now, they look like an SEC school, and frankly, SEC schools would be embarrassed to have some of this stuff going on. So, This is a time where Michigan has succeeded greatly, and it has put itself in a lot of really embarrassing, tawdry situations as well. Uh, so, a bit of a reality check for who Michigan is, who it thinks it is versus who it really is at this point, in my opinion. Preach. Yeah. Well, uh, we will see where this goes. So, uh, to that point, Brian, uh, you laid out a little bit of the, some of the problems here. A lot of coaches that would probably like this job have other jobs, recently took other jobs, recently agreed to new contracts. Uh, you wrote about who could be candidates on Wednesday. How do you see this search playing out? Well, who's, who's running it would be my kind of first big question, you know, is it going to be Ward Manuel's hire? Is it gonna be somebody else's there at Michigan? You know, who, who's the ultimate boss, not only in terms of running the search, you know, are, are they gonna get a search firm? I think there's, there's actual process considerations that we gotta kind of figure out here with Michigan, especially how fresh this news is and really how much they're, they're all gonna be dealing with, you know, it just, it's, it doesn't seem like it's going to be an intern Biff Pogey, you know, use the cutoffs and Uh, you know, go with it for, for an interim period and then we'll make a hire down the road after we kind of sort all that out. It does seem like they, at least would like to, you know, move out somewhat quickly, uh, to, to, to get another guy, especially because the transfer portal, that deadline is not moving and that, uh, is certainly coming up fast and furious with some big considerations, including their, their star quarterback, um, as we all know, uh , I think that'll be a big, uh, big factor in terms of the speed of the search. But in terms of the names, and, you know, I, I think you can start with Kaylin Deboer, you know, he's obviously a Midwestern guy. Um, you know, I think the fit there at Alabama. Yeah, I, I think if you're Kaylin DeBoer too, and this comes open and look, there's certainly been some, some reports that he was flirting or, or Penn State was flirting with him, and I, I, I think you could maybe take that with a grain of salt in terms of, uh, you know, his interest in the line. He's certainly been, He says he's happy. He says his family's happy they're at Alabama, but, you know, there, there are two things that, uh, I, I think if, if you're Kaylin DeBoer, you would, you should seriously consider saying, giving him a call to Michigan , and the fact that number 1, Paul Finebaum is not running for Senate, and so he will be there to pester you every single time that you lose. That would be number 1. Number 2, you could see the fan reaction there at Alabama in terms of, uh, after they lost that SEC championship game, they're like, all right, we, we, we don't want to go to the playoffs, you know, like with this, we're, we're, they were. Kind of over the, the era and it kind of seems like what we've seen out of Brian Kelly and LSU earlier that maybe that fan base just has not, you know, gotten, gotten their, their grip around, uh, this Kaylin DeBoer era. And, uh, you know, I think that maybe looking for an exit clause, as, as good a job as Alabama is, Michigan's also a pretty damn good job that you can win a national title at, and it comes with less of the baggage that you have to deal with at a place like Alabama. So that, that, that'd be kind of where, where you, Might want to start, but there's, there's gonna be a lot of names, and I am gonna be very curious to see, are they gonna go to somebody with Michigan ties, you know, somebody like, you know, Jesse Minter is out there. Obviously, the Chargers coordinator, uh, he does have a show cause attached to him. So there's, there's some complicating factors with that. But, um, you know, are, are you gonna go with, uh, somebody connected to Jim Harbaugh, somebody who connected to the program, maybe that played for, for Michigan. There, there's certainly a number of coaches out there that, uh, do have Maize and Blues ties, but, Uh, or, are they gonna completely cut ties with those, you know , and, and go outside the family if you will. I, I think that's gonna be an interesting, uh, thing. You, you got Jed Fish out there. He's a former assistant there. I think he's gonna be a name that, uh, gets connected a lot with this job. So, um, it could go a number of different directions, but the bottom line is, this is a blue blood. It is one of those top jobs. It is a place that has shown that you could win a national title. They have the resources now. Uh, I, I think there's, there's gonna be a lot of coaches interested in this one. 22 quick things. One, they're very lucky to have Biff Poy uh available in this situation. Remember, he was the interim coach earlier in the season when Sharon Nor was suspended, and, and he did a fine job. And he Uh, his kids played at Michigan. He was on Harbaugh's staff. He knows how that program works, and he'll be a steadying force. So, I think they're very fortunate to have Biff Pogey, uh, be it in an interim role or moving forward. So, long shot moving forward, but, uh, for right now, very fortunate to have him. Secondly, and I say it, I said it earlier in the season, I'm sure I'll get uh mocked, but Uh, I think your first call has to go to Nick Saban. I think you just have to ask him, do you have any interest in this? And maybe it's a two-year thing. And we need somebody to come in here with gravitas, with credibility, uh, with a, uh, a guy who used to coach in the Big 10, by the way, uh, somebody who can steady this, and, uh, uh, won't do any of this, this, this craziness that's going on with this program. So, Uh, I, I think you at least have to call him and ask him. He'll say no, but I think you at least have to call him and ask him. And as for Brian's other candidates, sure, they all have their, their pros and cons. Uh, so, yeah, uh, my first thought was, I wonder what Matt Campbell's thinking at this exact moment. Yeah , no, I, I think that's uh, a legitimate thought, and I will say, I wonder, in retrospect, if some of this was Percolating maybe on, on agent circles, that sort of thing. It was a little bit of a hitch in the giddy up, obviously with the Penn State search, right? It, it kind of lingered there and all of a sudden there was like some different unusual candidates, and I almost wonder if there were some people out there waiting to see is the Michigan shoe going to drop. Yeah, it's a good point. And if that complicated things, and then it finally does drop after signing day, after the cycle is basically complete, and now it's a whole different. Ballgame, uh, I, I will be fascinated to see, I like Saban, sure, if you can get him. I just don't think he's gonna do it. Uh, the other, yeah, the other Alabama coach, Deboer, I think that's a really interesting one there. If, if they lose to Oklahoma, uh, on September, on December 19th, is, is he in play? Would he want to be in play? Uh, how does that go down? And then if not, where does it go from there? I suspect. I'm Talking to a few people that this would probably be an opportunity for Michigan to, to move away from the Harbaugh tree, you know, like a Jesse Minor or anybody else. I, I, I don't think that would be in play. There may be some people pushing for it, including Jim Harbaugh himself, but I, I think the administration, what there is, and even Ward Manuel, who is, I think, pretty exhausted dealing with Harbaugh, uh, might wanna, to, to go his own way there, if, if he does get the chance to make this hire. Because, look, Uh, Sharon Moore didn't go well. Juwan Howard went well for a little while in basketball, then it went poorly. Dusty May, the new hire, very good, but Sharon Moore's had, had a couple of mistakes for sure. All right, real quickly, guys, uh, I wanna get your Heisman thoughts. Uh, I know Brian and I are voters. Gino, are you still a voter? Are you, are you? No, I gave it up last year. OK, OK. So you can say, who would you vote for, Gene, if you had a vote. Oh man. Uh, I would, I would have to vote for, um, uh, Pavia. Uh, very, very difficult vote, I think this year. You might think otherwise, I know you guys aren't, aren't gonna say who you voted for. I totally get it. But, um, uh, I, uh, I mean, I thought Jeremiah Love has a really compelling case. I think saying out of the 4 would probably be 4th on my ballot. Uh, I know Mendoza is going to be likely the number 1 draft pick, but I don't choose my Heisman. Uh, winners based on what they're gonna do, or where they're gonna be chosen in the NFL draft. So, as the most outstanding college football player, I think this year, it was Pavia. I wish your thoughts, yeah, on the, yeah, yeah, I wish we had, uh, we had more, you know, some of the finalists in New York so, so we could tell their stories and all that, and, uh, you know, I, I think if, you know, the Heisman Trophy has been at least listening, that the trust itself has been listening to and, and incorporating some, some tweaks and changes this year, you know, in terms of the voting period. It didn't open until essentially, uh, kind of the end of the first quarter of the SEC championship game, and you had to get it in by Monday as usual, but Um, the voting period itself was, was truncated, uh, compared to, you know, past years, which I think is probably gonna have an impact on ultimately who wins this. But, uh, I, I mean, there were so many great, uh, players and, and options and stories and, and like, you know, I, I, I would imagine when we actually look at the, the final voting tallies. Uh, you know, there, there's gonna be a ton of guys that end up getting 2nd place, 3rd-place votes. Um, you know, I, I think the 1st-place votes are gonna be split. So, I, I think it's gonna be a fascinating race if, if you want to kind of look at it from, from that, uh, that perspective. But I mean, there were so many great candidates. And, um, you know, you mentioned the quarterbacks there . I think it's gonna be interesting between Uh, I'm sure, you know, Julian San's performance in the Big 10 title game didn't help him at all in terms of getting, uh, the ultimate win. Um, you, you wonder about vote splitting with Jeremiah Smith and, and if, if he's gonna gather, you know, a little more momentum there, uh, in the Midwest. You, you got, uh, you know , certainly Mendoza and, and, and Pay are probably gonna be your 12 in some sort of order, uh, just based on, on looking at some of the odds and, and how others are talking, but, um, really just a fascinating year and, and a difficult decision. I mean, this is one of the more difficult decisions I had. Not just in terms of, you know, who's 1 and who's 2, but like, all right, who's gonna be that 3rd guy, you know, that you are gonna throw, throw out there because there, there were a lot of deserving candidates this year and nobody really kind of like seized that momentum, seized the race, and, and seized the trophy, and that's not a bad thing. It's just kind of reflective on, it was a very broad year in terms of candidates. Yeah, I, I would have loved a 5-person ballot this year. It's always 3, and it's fine, you know, it's like, hey, our choices just like the committee had to make. Somebody had to be left out. A couple of people had to be left off the ballot, but I could have voted for. The four finalists, Fernando Mendoza, Diego Pavia, uh, Julian San, and Jeremiah Love, absolutely, I would have liked a 5th spot for Jacob Rodriguez, the linebacker from Texas Tech. 11 takeaways on his own, 7 forced fumbles, 4 interceptions, leading tackler on a great defense, and talk about a story. The guy was a walk-on quarterback at Virginia. And they used him as kind of a Taysom Hill athlete guy that just did stuff. He transfers home, he's from Wichita Falls, Texas, becomes a linebacker, and he's phenomenal on this, you know, up from the, the bootstraps team. So, I would like to have seen Jacob Rodriguez get to New York, but again, there's only so many votes to go around, so many places. Um. All right, it's time for our weekly segment. Commentators commenting on comments presented by Facebook. We take comments from Facebook groups as they comment on college football, and we react to them. So let's go to this week's comments. This one's for Brian from Ariel. I love Matt Campbell to Penn State. He might be exactly what we needed. What do you think? I'm right there with you, Ariel. You know, I, I think this was when, when you could have, number one, when you're, you're grading the hire and when you're looking at who Penn State could have hired, you know, initially, like Matt Campbell was top of the list, you know, in terms of potential candidates that would would have taken the job and and done a great job there. He, he's a maximizer of, of talent. He's gonna do that at Penn State. He's a guy that maybe the floor is a little bit lower compared to James Franklin. Because he always seemed to win those games that you expected Penn State to win, but the ceiling is a little bit higher in terms of getting those upsets that Penn State fans have desperately needed. He was there, knocking off Texas, knocking off Oklahoma with, you know, essentially one hand tied behind his back at Iowa State in terms of the, the roster he could build. He's gonna kill it at, at Penn State, I think in terms of, you know, getting those wins that, uh, that Penn State fan base really wants to see. All right, I'll answer Lawrence's question. Who cares if the Irish turned down a bowl? If you could, if you all could name who played in last year's Pop-Tarts Bowl without looking it up, I will buy a steak dinner for each of you. Give me some steak, Lawrence. That was Iowa State in Miami. And the main reason I remember is because Cam Ward played like one quarter, right? And then said, I'm out. Uh, so that, that, that's the main reason that , so I, I get your point, Lawrence, that, uh, first of all, Notre Dame playing in the Pop-Tarts Bowl just on name alone. I think that, you know, if this were the, the Gator Bowl or the Citrus Bowl, things might have been a little easier to finesse, but Pop-Tarts Bowl is a good bowl. They do get Pop-Tarts out of it. But uh I, I understand Notre Dame's situation. I wish they would have played. I'm not gonna make a federal case out of it. But I do know Miami and Iowa State, it was like 43 to 42 or something. Uh, Gino, Wade wants to know, did Greg Sankey force the committee to pick Alabama over ND? How could they watch both teams and believe Bama is better? It's so corrupt. Do we have corruption, Gene? First of all, Facebook, thank you for, uh, sponsoring us, uh , these weeks, and, uh, secondly, really, that's the question you had to give me, Pat. Greg, Greg Sankey conspiracy theory. Yeah, no, of course not. I mean, look, we, if you, if you listen to Ivan earlier in, in this, uh, podcast, you can, you can criticize the committee all you want, and, and they know that going in. But I don't think you can criticize the integrity of the committee. I truly believe they try to do the best job they can with the information that they have, and they, and they, they make a decision, and they're not always popular decisions. Greg Sankey wasn't within 10,000 miles of being inside that room. Uh, every constituency is given an opportunity to make a case. Uh, for their teams, and that did happen previous to it, and Notre Dame, by the way, Ron Paullis of that athletic department made a presentation to the committee. Everybody gets a chance to do that. So, uh, the committee acted on its own. Uh, Greg Sankey, while we can argue he might be the most powerful person in college athletics, in this case, uh, was powerless when it came to deciding who would be in the field. So no corruption. No, I'm with you. Sorry, I know it sounds good, but uh. But there was no corruption there. Um, and all right, I just very sadly closed the, the document here, but I did have the last, uh, the last question, I can't remember who asked it, but it was, if Indiana and Kurt Signetti go 16-0, is this the greatest coaching job ever? The answer is yes, it is. Indiana 16-0 is so preposterous, it's beyond belief. And I think they can do it. I actually think they're good enough, although they had a major injury. Uh, to a defensive end in the fall in the celebration after winning the Big 10 championship. Not good. All right, uh, winners in steak dinners, we have one game to pick. We'll pick it quickly. Uh, since I closed the document, I don't even know what the standings are. I just, oh, is, is that so, Pat? Is that so, Pat? You know, you, you don't , you guys don't want to talk about going 1 and 4 last week between the two of you. I, I don't recall. I don't recall. I'm having audio problems. I didn't hear anything that Brian just said. Uh, Brian, I think, uh, continues to, to win. Uh, we continue to lose. I, I think Geno's in the middle and I'm at the bottom, of course. Uh, but our one game, Army Navy, Wonderful game, love it every year, love everything about both programs, uh, and both teams are good, which is great. I, I, you know, I just, I, I, I'm very happy when both teams are good. In this instance, uh, Navy's giving 6.5. Brian, you're winning, make your pick. Oh , you know, the head says, uh, this is gonna be a tight, low scoring, randomly decided in the 4th quarter type of affair that, uh, always seems to be the case in this game. Uh, I am gonna go with Navy though. Uh, both heart and head say the Navy, uh, just, just a better team this year. You know what? And, and I think the, the more explosive offense, uh, I think in this case ends up covering the 6.5, so give me the midshipman. Well, I've I agree with you on many levels, Brian, but I also have spent considerable time during this season, um, uh, touting the, the many, uh, accomplishments of, uh, of Jeff Monken, and I guess I need to put my money where my Monken is. Well, I think, uh , Brian Newberry is a fabulous coach and has done great work there, and, uh, and I do think Navy is the better team this season. I will take the 6.5 points and hope for a tight game. Oh boy. Uh, I was hoping you guys would both go Navy so I could go Army and try to regain a little here, but what, what's the point? I'm not regaining enough. So , give me, uh, give me Navy. I just did the diversity of the offense. They've got more weapons. They've been able to, they've been pretty darn explosive, so I'm taking the midshipman. We'll be watching, salute to all players involved and all members of the student body of both schools. Uh, all right, real quick before we go, guys, we, we have to hit this, a Christmas-themed. Uh, scandal of sorts at a prison in South Carolina, and the AP continues to come through with creative writing. This is tremendous. Bishopville, South Carolina, Dateline. It was 3 weeks before Christmas, and in the prison yard a drone dropped package was found by a guard. With steak, weed, and crab legs, and cigarettes for days, and to season it all, a tin of Old Bay. Yes, a drone dropped in a luxury meal, cigarettes, and pot for some lucky prisoner. Unfortunately, not lucky enough because they didn't get it. The guards got it instead. I guess they ate the ingredients. I hope the steak and the crab legs could. Stay fresh enough to eat here. The steak was not cooked. It was still in the shrink wrapped like you just pull it out of the, the grocery. Uh, but I have to ask you my question, gentlemen. First of all, Genius or not. But secondly, if you're in prison, if you're in the, if you're in the lockup, and you've got to have a Christmas meal dropped in for you, what are you ordering? First of all, that sounds like a, a 40-family Christmas, including the location. It's not out of the question. You might have some relatives in the lockup. It's not, I , I am living in the, uh, Chicago area where we have something called, uh, uh, Chicago beef sandwiches. I don't know if you've ever had one, but, uh, there are some very fine Chicago beef , uh, restaurants, one right down the street. And I am a sucker for all things, uh, Chicago beef sandwich, uh, we call them baptized where you, uh, basically dunk them into the, uh, into the sauce. So that would be my meal. What's the sauce? Oh, it's kind of like a, a, a, a beef gravy sauce. Sweet, that sounds good. Yeah, it's an angioplasty waiting to happen, but they're delicious. Brian, you got a prison meal. I don't know. Steak and steak and crab legs sounds pretty good to me, you know, like, I, I don't think you can go wrong on, on that one. Maybe some scallops, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I'm a sucker for scallops. I don't know how that would, uh, necessarily fare if you're getting an airdropped. So, uh, I, I'll stick with the steak and the, and the crab legs there. Yeah, that's, I, I'm afraid you're a little high maintenance here and a little overly, uh, optimistic about the. The shelf life of said drone drop. For that reason, look, I'm going, give me like a Shakespeare's pizza from Columbia, Missouri, because what? If pizza, first of all, if it drops hard, it's not gonna be messed up. If it sits there for a few hours before you can get to it, it's fine. Cold pizza is OK. I was on a TV show called Cold Pizza for quite a while at one point at ESPN. Uh, so I think you have to tailor your prison food drop to the circumstances. How long is it gonna take you to get it, and are you gonna have to battle the guards to get it as well? That, that sounds like a guy who served some hard time in county lockup. Way, way too confident about all the options there. You know, look, I mean, you, you, we, we've lived a hard life over here, you know, we're straight off the streets of the mean streets of Colorado Springs. Uh, you know how it goes. So, so anyway, clearly, and that's our show, that's enough. Uh, I appreciate everybody listening. Appreciate Ivan Mazel for being a guest. We appreciate Facebook for the comments to respond to. Everybody have a great, uh, weekend, and we'll be back next week.